oil pump/timing cover 250 monza question

[miken5678]

does anyone know if there is a difference between wd/nc engine side covers?

I am looking at

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... K:MEWAX:IT

because my shipper has lost my side case and want to pick this up.. not sure if its a great price or if someone can point me in a better direction let me know

Mike

[Eldert]

Hi Mike
this cover wil fit your engine . this is not a bad price at al considering it comes with the oil pump to

Eldert

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" does anyone know if there is a difference between wd/nc engine side covers? "

____ Of course,, and in fact, I believe there's few people in the world who may know anything more than I do, about such information!
__ All timing/oil-pump covers are the same on both n-c & w-c 175/200/250/350/450 motors!
__ The shifter-box maincase-cover is also the same for all those listed models, (however, some of the box-internals differ between n-c & w-c !).
__ Concerning the left-side/primary maincase-cover, there are four models... the 125/160 model -(which will fit [& work] on the 175/200 maincases); the 175/200 model -(the plainest looking version); the n-c 250/350 model -(which will also fit on the 125/160/175/200 models); & the w-c 250/350/450 model -(which won't fit n-c maincases!).


" because my shipper has lost my side case "

____ Has that shipper confirmed that they have (basicly) thrown-out your cover?

" and want to pick this up.. not sure if its a great price or if someone can point me in a better direction let me know "

____ I've seen that cover not sell on eBay even when listed as low as just under 10-bucks! _ But that listed price of THAT unit, is about fair. _ I highly suggest that you not bid on it however, until the last-day (preferably the last-second!) before that listing ends.
__ I have such a spare but, don't care to sell mine that cheap. _ Hopefully, Capt.Paul can beat or at least match that price for you, (as he has already offered to help you with some of your parts needs!).
__ But before you start buying such pricy parts, you first need to be sure that you're going down the right-road! ... Have you checked to make sure that your con.rod is tight?


DUKE-Cheers,
-Bob

[miken5678]

the con rod has no up and down play but minimal if any side to side.. I will be cracking the case tomorrow to see if i can determine what might have caused the crank damage as well as what bearing might have come apart.

sadly i do not have a tool to measure bore other than calipers so i am stuck on that for a while until i figure out someone or a shop that can measure it for me

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" the con rod has no up and down play but minimal if any side to side.. "

____ Seems you have a good crank & rod, so your motor should be worth getting it's missing parts for then!


" I will be cracking the case tomorrow to see if i can determine what might have caused the crank damage as well as what bearing might have come apart. "

____ There are special-tools for tearing-down the motor that far! _ And there are some safe ways to do so without them but, I always hate to see the results of non-DUCATI mechanics screwing-up things after they've tried to figure their own ways of getting-by without the needed tools!
So if you feel that you really must proceed (with what-ever tools you happen to have), then please think to do so very carefully,, and don't forget that the right-end crankshaft-nut is LEFT-hand threaded!
I don't know how YOU plan to split the main-cases apart, but, when you reach a point where you should realize that you ought to have some advice from a DUKE-expert, then PLEASE ask!


" sadly i do not have a tool to measure bore other than calipers "

____ Your std.caliper should measure the cyl.bore, close enough!


Tillater,
-Bob

[miken5678]

well feel free to provide your expertise. I didnt run into much issue with the indian that I took apart way back when.. just made sure to be careful and check the diagrams if something was hung up.

I know there are set tools to get the clutch and crank off however I will only be going as far as I can with what I have right now.. no need to mux anything up as the cases are in decent condition

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" well feel free to provide your expertise. "

____ At this point, I had expected you to tell me where you're at with the job and what seems to be keeping you from proceeding, and what tools you have (besides screw-drivers & a hammer) that you hope to use.


" I know there are set tools to get the clutch and crank off however I will only be going as far as I can with what I have right now.. "

____ There are some SAFE, (and also many BAD!), ways to attempt such work-jobs on DUKE-motors, without any of the 'special' Ducati-tools made for such work-jobs ! _ But even so, ya have to have good usable substitute tools (& means), which usually aren't found within any normal/regular master tool-box !
__ I understand that you'd like to see what junk might be inside the maincases and get it all cleaned-out, and check the bearings, etc... So if you have thus-far removed the pair of 8mm cyl.base-bolts and all the other 6mm casing-screws, -(all sealing the pair of maincase-halves together), and have also removed the countershaft-sprocket, as well as the bevel-gear from the crankshaft,, (I realize that there's then an intense temptation to continue-on & use one's hammer & screw-driver at the remaining situation, BUT...), then you really SHOULD next be intent on employing only a decent means to get-by without the normally needed special-tools...
Since you don't have BOTH right-side side-covers, then you'll have to forgo the shortcut of not having to make a suitable block-of-wood (to take their place for the splitting-job)! _ Do you have any 2-by-4 blocks ? _ Plus a drill & saw? - (For working the wood to suit). _ And any wedges or crowbars ?


Tillater,
DCT-Bob

[miken5678]

i should keep this in the other thread but i spent most of the day cleaning the dang thing.. some very thick layers of grease and gunk in all the fins.. once i got some of it off i noticed that the clutch side case doesnt have a seal but someone put what looks like liquid seal around the whole case.. i have gotten most of it off on the outside however whats on the inside has me curious as the bead was over an inch thick on the outside.. I will get more done tomorrow as my hands were starting to go numb.. will post some photos in the other thread as i noticed the bottom of the clutch cover fits perfectly flush while the top there is a definite 1/16 of an inch gap as they dont line up.. thanks for the help so far.. i will try to move this over to the other thread when i put some photos up

i wont be using a hammer esp on soft alum cases but it already appears someone had fun with a screw driver on a couple of the clutch screws as well as the bevel cam gear screw.. trust me when i get stuck i will make sure to post and get something worked out vs damaging something.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ I gather that you don't have any of the stuff that I last asked about !?
I was next going to explain how you could easily build a jig/tool out of wood (that could take the place of the two right-side covers), for providing a means to help get the main-cases separated.
Making such a jig from a steel-bar would be preferred but, I assumed that you'd more likely have some suitable wood to work with. _ (If anyone else who intends to split DUKE-maincases, would like to know the complete plans for my jig, then please ask!)
___ Using the right-side covers instead of the jig can be done, but in this case, ya still need some pieces of wood for shimming purposes.
After having done everything I instructed in my previous post, then here's what you COULD do next.....
__ Normally, you would next screw the nuts back onto both the countershaft & the crankshaft, until their outer-faces are exactly flush with the tip-end of their shafts. _ Then place a suitable thickness of wood-shim/stock over the top/end of those shaft&nuts, so that when the covers are then placed back into their positions, they will then rest over & against the wood -(space-filler pieces), preferably with about a 3 to 5mm gap (compared to the shifter-cover's normally installed-fit). _ Or, if the wood spacer-pieces which you have to use, cause a larger gap that's 6 to 11mm, then be sure to use LONGER 6mm-screws -(each cover uses 30 to 50mm screws), accordingly,, and screw (at least two per cover) into ONLY the holes where the shortest (30mm) screws are normally supposed to be fitted, (at opposing sides of the shaft, of course) !
The timing/pump-cover will require the use of only the longest screws, since it's initial gap will be over 15mm. _ (Ya could use some pennies instead of wood-shims, for this cover's job.)
And then tighten each screw just a half-turn at a time in both covers, alternately. - That way, you shall EVENLY pressure the wood to press both shafts equally (along with the left-maincase), and thus oppositely from the right-maincase,, and therefore the main-cases will then (eventually) be forced to split apart.
(If using only two screws per cover, then be extra careful to not over-stress the case-threads!)
__ Now since YOU don't have your front right-side cover, I cringe to tell you what the average-joe would do in place of it's absence ! _ So I guess we're back to needing the stuff which I had asked you if you had any of, previously.
___ How do the fins on the front of the main-cases look (where they mate together)? _ Does it look as if maybe joe-average has already tried to whack his screw-driver in between them, before ?


Tillater,
DCT-Bob

[miken5678]

no i really dont have any of the stuff you are referencing.. i will have to hit the store to pick up the wood.. going to post some photos in the old thread.