"Duo-servo" brakes

[Boxprod]

Like many of us, I'm fascinated by the improvements made to motorcycle brakes by our predecessors.

I've read most of the wisdom on the forum about making old brakes as good as they can be, and I've even tried a couple of careful improvements/modifications. Top of the list is, of course, to ensure that everything is in the best condition, with cables, linings, lubrication and so on all tickety-boo.

But here's a topic I've just come across: the Bendix "Duo-servo" system. It's been commonplace in the rear drums of things like US pick-ups, and it's still out there in the four-wheeled world, hidden away where glossy discs and brightly-painted calipers wouldn't get noticed.

As I understand it, the idea is for the leading ("primary") shoe to be fully floating, and the trailing ("secondary") shoe to be anchored adjacent to the operating cam, so that as the servo effect (sometimes referred to by the American truckers as "wrapping", which describes it quite well) comes in on the leading shoe, it presses on the end of the trailing shoe, which then provides a similar servo effect.

To achieve this, the pivot has to be removed, and the shoes at that end have to be faced with some sort of flat plate/shim, so that the servo force can be transmitted from leading to trailing. The trailing shoe would be anchored at its far end, by the cam. Thus the servo "wrapping" effect is carried all the way round the circle, from cam to anchor.

Here's a sketch I found from someone (not DBDBrian, I know) who has modified a Gold Star brake in this way.

190mm-TLS-mod.JPG

It's a bit fuzzy, but just about readable.
One question is why, in the sketch, the trailing shoe anchor - the only fixed point - is placed half-way along the shoe rather than at its end by the cam. Thinking about this, I reckon it might be good to have the shoes loosely connected to the brake plate with a couple of those palm-tree-shaped links as they are in old car drums, but the trailing shoe would certainly need a robust anchor to stop it pressing against and probably distorting the cam.

Having deleted the pivot and the associated disc which holds the shoes to the brake plate, that's another thing to consider for ensuring predictable consequences when the brake is applied. Perhaps a post just inboard of the shoes, with a small plate holding them as the pivot disc used to.

My conversation with the aforementioned Gold Star expert Brian suggests that this could well be a mite too aggressive for a motorcycle, and I'm interested to know if anyone has actually experimented with this sort of setup.

Effectively, it seems to be a twin leading shoe brake with only one cam!

Just askin'.

Best wishes to all,
Pete.

[Jordan]

Interesting idea, Pete.
Let us know how it goes if you do this mod.

Regarding the floating shoe feature:
My 1969 BSA B44 has a SLS front brake with floating brake shoes, which works pretty well.
The shoe ends that would normally have semi-circular shape for the pivot, instead is almost flat. That allows the shoes to slide slightly on the pin, which gives a wedging effect = better braking.
Friction and spring pressure keeps the shoes in place when the brake is released.
The 1968/9 TLS brakes fitted to Triumph & BSA were very good stoppers, also with floating shoes.

https://www.cruzinimage.net/wp-content/ ... 68x515.jpg

[Boxprod]

Thanks, Jordan. I've done the fully floating mod on some new EBC shoes (which had to be cut down from their full-hub width, but are the right 180mm diameter for the double-sided Grimeca), and the braking force is pretty good.
However, the feel is a little spongey, so I've "settled" the shoes in the hub by temporarily glueing 80-grade al-ox paper to the drum and with a suitable threaded rod to apply the brake to just-biting point, I've hand-rotated the brake plates so the entire length of each shoe is lightly sanded. That's because I don't have access to a lathe, so old-fashioned methods take precedence!
I've asked Villiers to reline the original shoes, so I'll be able to make a comparison between the pivot Grimeca design and the fully-floating version.
I'll try to post a description when I've got around to it....
Pete.

[themoudie]

Aye Pete,

I have posted a link below to an article that you may have been reading on the "victorylibrary.com" website. It too mentions "BritBike Forum member ca7a", whom modified his brake and gives a link to the same "fuzzy" image and others, of the modifications made to a SLS drum front brake..

SLS-to-TLS type_drum_brake_modification

I too have thought about this modification, but I am wary about the potential lateral movement of what was the trailing brake shoe, with the removal of the pivot and its retaining flanges!? Engineers comments welcome, please. Has this modification been used in anger on the race track? As most race singles, used in anger, use disc brake front brakes, for ease of maintanence and better braking. Alternatively, the multi-shoed 4LS/8LS drums are used, but the maintanence and setup of these is not practical on a regularly used road machine and they add to the unsprung weight of the front end, when compared to a floating disc brake setup.

My standard double sided SLS on the 450 works well, when properly setup, ensuring that the whole of the braking surface bears on the drum. But, it is a world away from the floating single front discs on the SRX 600 and the Bros 400 that I also ride.

Thank you for starting the thread.

Good health, Bill

[Boxprod]

I ran the idea by Britbike guru Graham Blighe, whom I have mentioned elsewhere, and he has responded to my query as follows:

I'm not certain from the diagram but it looks like the idea is to remove the fixed pivot and have those ends of the shoes sliding against each other?

If so, all the braking force on the shoes will be pushing against one side of the cam and trying to turn the brake off. Your hand on the brake lever may or may not be able to overcome that force and get the brake to work.

It looks like the second part of the idea is to remove one half of the cam so as to avoid what I've described above. Assuming the remaining half of the cam turns anti-clockwise in the diagram.

Theoretically, it should work and get both shoes operating fully.
However, I would be concerned about play in the shoes and in the axial plane, parallel to the wheel spindle. This might cause the shoes to buckle and jam the brake on. The test rider would need to wear MotoGP style inflatable leathers!

Nice idea and thanks for "floating" it by me.

Best regards,
Graham

But I'm still betting someone has tried it....

Pete.