1965 ducati narrow case

[flanker]

****the kill switch is gounded! from the electrex company ": Black/White cable is connecting to a kill switch. When connected to earth the engine will stop."

" you bring up a tough question. the 4 terminal electric switch. it seems that was used for a year or 2. "

____ All the battery-powered Monza/Sebring/GT/Mach-I models used the same-type of double-circuit twin-{OFF\off / ON\on}-switch (which 'opens' both it's circuits by default) ! _ However the similar double-circuit dual-{on\OFF / off\ON}-switch (which has one of it's circuits rather 'closed' by default), was used on most magneto-powered Duke-models with hybrid magneto/battery-powered load-systems (like that of the '66-Scr & M.Jr models).
So such double-circuit key-switches were used for well-over two years !
__ What needs to be determined is whether the Electrix-ign.system requires the twin-type or dual-type double-switch.
If the Electrix-ign.switch-circuit needs to become grounded in order for it's ignition to switch-into it's activated-status, then your stock twin-circuit type key-switch will perform the expected function.
However if that Electrix-circuit is always 'live' by default, and-so thus-then rather needs to be grounded so as to 'kill' it's otherwise always activated-state,, then you'd require the dual-circuit type key-switch (in order to be able to ground-out & shut-off the ign.power).
__ Since Sam was good-enough to tell us merely that the Electrix-system only-comes with just a mere 'kill-switch' (which we're still also left uninformed as to exactly how that*switch functions, [* particularly opposed to the unclarified switch-circuitry of the 4-terminal switch depicted within the so-lacking Blackie-diagram]), perhaps Nick could tell us exactly how the included kill-switch actually performs.
Otherwise it seems we'd be left to ASSUME that the supplied 'kill-switch' operates same-as common/ordinary kill-switches do - (by grounding-out the produced power so that there's then nothing left available to create a spark with). _ However I would-not think that such electronic-circuits necessarily also need function that same way.
So-then you may have to find-out from your Electrix-supplier whether their system's so-called 'kill-switch' actually kills, or rather activates it's ign.system.
So anyhow,, if killing is actually how the included kill-switch works, then you'd need to acquire the dual-type key-switch, (if you really want a KEY-activatable ign.switch) !
And assuming so, I'd then recommend a key-switch like those used by the 1973 350-ROAD model.



" my bike s a 65 250 monza that I think had the round headlight and round tank "

____ That would indeed be correct for the '65 model-year !



" I have the original switch but i wanted to replace it. "

____ Why, do you think it's too worn-out ?



" yes I have several of the original proper color codes. "

____ Do you mean colored-diagrams of the n-c.wiring-scheme, (as I assume) ?

[flanker]

****the kill switch is gounded! from the electrex company ": Black/White cable is connecting to a kill switch. When connected to earth the engine will stop."

[flanker]

so what type of switch do i need? a toggle is fine, if its more convenient than key. Do I still mount it in the headlight?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= flanker ...
" the kill switch is gounded! from the electrex company "

____ That statement-wording alone, would've led me to gather that their kill-switch comes with it's switch-mechanism normally set to a closed/ground-circuit by default (and-thus needing to have it's closed-circuit broken/opened in order to activate the ign.system).
Is that really correct ?



" Black/White cable is connecting to a kill switch. When connected to earth the engine will stop. "

____ Okay that more clearly indicates that when their kill-switch is set to it's closed-circuit position, thus-then connecting the Black/White-wire to ground,, the power-circuit then becomes killed, thus resulting with the ign.system being switched-off to it's deactivated-status.
If this is correct, then the Electrix-designers logically chose to make-sure that their kill-circuit operated just like standard kill-switch circuits normally do.



" so what type of switch do i need? "

____ Assuming you don't wish to make any use of the stock lights/ign.switch, then most-any switch you chose will suffice !



" a toggle is fine, if its more convenient than key. "

____ So are you specifically in reference to a lights-switch, or an alternate ign.switch for supplementing the kill-switch ?
Usually a supplemental-ign.switch is incorporated only when the kill-circuit is activated by a kill-button (which self-defaults to an open-circuit).
__ Of-course you could indeed choose to use a std.type toggle-switch for the convenience of not needing to carry-around a key,, and that would be quite convenient for anyone inclined to take your Duke for a spin during the night as well, (whilst you dream about the riding-pleasure you last enjoyed) !



" Do I still mount it in the headlight? "

____ Well of-course that's an option which you-yourself can choose to make,, however I think it's more reasonable to have it in the headlamp than somewhere out of easy reach under the seat or the like.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[flanker]

Bob thx again for all the info I've been studying your posts and all the books and manuals that i have and have not been idle even though I haven't posted on this link. Ive been getting the frame stripped and getting it blasted checking it for straightness and chips flaws etc... and then its getting a powder coat.

I don't have a widecase color coded proper wire diagram. ill search the forum unless you have one handy!

Is there a place to source the wires. I really want the best I can get!

Im going to use my original ignition and light switches. Ive obtained bulbs that are 12v. and ill order the fuses (thx for that info).

I took my brake hubs off these crummy wheels that were put on at some time long ago. Ive polished the hubs but the front is so scored it may not be usable. I found a replacement hub on ebay. I spoke with the vintage brake guy who was really helpful and one of the buchanans for spokes and wheels. Im so psyched for this project but I'm taking my time to get it done correctly. Anyway I want to order all the wiring so that I can be ready for that phase. Very excited to learn about it. Thx again Rob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= flanker ...
" I don't have a widecase color coded proper wire diagram. "

____ I've colored a n-c.wire-diagram with the w-c.wire-jacket color-coding that's not as obviously apparent with the actual n-c.wiring.
The w-c.wire-colors are pretty-much the same as those of the n-c.battery-powered models with just a very-few exceptions (such-as a black-colored battery-ground wire in-place of the n-c.green-wire).
The only noteworthy wire-color changes I needed to make on the old/std.n-c.wiring-diagram are, the Yellow-wire back-to the taillight, and the Blue-(with black-stripe) to the horn & brake-switch.
For stock n-c.models,, both those wire-lengths are rather solid-black, (except with the taillight-wire having a yellow-ink terminal-maker, and the power-wire to the horn & brake-switch having a blue-ink terminal-marker). _ So there's really no opposing difference between n-c & w-c wire color-coding for those two lengths.



" ill search the forum unless you have one handy! "

____ Anyone searching this w.site for the electrical-system/wiring-scheme diagram for Monza/Sebring/GT/Mach-I models, should avoid the given-example that's found within the Tech-section ! _ As not-only is it screwed-up a bit, but it also INCORRECTLY indicates a key-switch wire-connection which is known to cause the battery to not receive enough charging-juice, and will thus lead to the lights dimming-out followed by ign.spark-stalling.
The corrected diagram I've posted below, has that key-switch wiring-connection rather properly indicated !



" Is there a place to source the wires. I really want the best I can get! "

____ That could be rather costly ! _ If you can find an aircraft-parts supply-outlet, it's known that aircraft-wiring is about the best-stuff ya can get your hands on.
Otherwise, standard automotive-type wiring should be sufficient.



" Im going to use my original ignition and light switches. "

____ But (from what I've come-to understand about your ign.circuit), since the Electrix-ign.system doesn't rely on the battery to become powered-up, your stock ign.switch thusly can't be used to turn it on & off.
(Seems-like for the extravagant price of those aftermarket-systems, they could include a workable key-switch to go-with, [instead of just a mere kill-switch] !)
__ So as I've previously indicated, it seems you need the type of key-switch that includes a closed default switch-circuit. _ And such a key-switch from a 160-MonzaJr or a 1966,67-Scr.model would be a straight-forward exchange installation.
__ However in order to make use of your stock/regular-type (open-circuit by default) key-switch for controlling your Electrix-ign.circuit, you'd then need to employ a circuit-relay unit...
I'm unaware of exactly what-all is available these-days for suitable relay-units, but I know there were electro-mechanical circuit-relay units available (from Radio Shack, etc) that could perform the circuit-function you need (with your stock key-switch). _ The particular-type circuit-relay unit I'm specifically in reference-to, had a Y-type circuit arrangement which was quite useful because when activated, not-only would it close one of it's two pathway-circuits (as is normally expected by a common 'relay'), but-also open it's other circuit-pathway, both on/off-functions completed at once !
So, that such a circuit-relay unit normally keeps one of it's circuits left closed by default, thusly means you could use that normally-closed circuit to keep your ign.circuit killed-off (until your key-switch activates the relay-unit [with the DC.power from the switched-on battery-circuit of your key-switch] ).
I'll have more details to tell-of, if you wish to go-with such a relay-unit (connected-up with your otherwise unsuitable key-ign.switch).


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[flanker]

____ Anyone searching this w.site for the electrical-system/wiring-scheme diagram for Monza/Sebring/GT/Mach-I models, should avoid the given-example that's found within the Tech-section ! _ As not-only is it screwed-up a bit, but it also INCORRECTLY indicates a key-switch wire-connection which is known to cause the battery to not receive enough charging-juice, and will thus lead to the lights dimming-out followed by ign.spark-stalling.
The corrected diagram I've posted below, has that key-switch wiring-connection rather properly indicated !

thx

____ That could be rather costly ! _ If you can find an aircraft-parts supply-outlet, it's known that aircraft-wiring is about the best-stuff ya can get your hands on.

thx

____ But (from what I've come-to understand), since the Electrix-ign.system isn't powered-up by the battery, your stock ign.switch thusly can't be used to turn it on & off.
(Seems-like for the exotic price of those aftermarket-systems, they could include a workable key-switch to go-with, [instead of just a mere kill-switch] !)

****yeah right i totally agree! So what switch am i looking for? Im feeling dumber all of a sudden....

[flanker]

[quote= flanker ...
" I don't have a widecase color coded proper wire diagram. "

____ I've colored a n-c.wire-diagram with the w-c.wire-jacket color-coding that's not as obviously apparent with the actual n-c.wiring.
The w-c.wire-colors are pretty-much the same as those of the n-c.battery-powered models with just a very-few exceptions (such-as a black-colored battery-ground wire in-place of the n-c.green-wire).
The only noteworthy wire-color changes I needed to make on the old/std.n-c.wiring-diagram are, the Yellow-wire back-to the taillight, and the Blue-(with black-stripe) to the horn & brake-switch.
For stock n-c.models,, both those wire-lengths are rather solid-black, (except with the taillight-wire having a yellow-ink terminal-maker, and the power-wire to the horn & brake-switch having a blue-ink terminal-marker). _ So there's really no opposing difference between n-c & w-c wire color-coding for those two lengths.



" ill search the forum unless you have one handy! "

____ Anyone searching this w.site for the electrical-system/wiring-scheme diagram for Monza/Sebring/GT/Mach-I models, should avoid the given-example that's found within the Tech-section ! _ As not-only is it screwed-up a bit, but it also INCORRECTLY indicates a key-switch wire-connection which is known to cause the battery to not receive enough charging-juice, and will thus lead to the lights dimming-out followed by ign.spark-stalling.
The corrected diagram I've posted below, has that key-switch wiring-connection rather properly indicated !

thx



" Is there a place to source the wires. I really want the best I can get! "

____ That could be rather costly ! _ If you can find an aircraft-parts supply-outlet, it's known that aircraft-wiring is about the best-stuff ya can get your hands on.

thx



" Im going to use my original ignition and light switches. "

____ But (from what I've come-to understand), since the Electrix-ign.system isn't powered-up by the battery, your stock ign.switch thusly can't be used to turn it on & off.
(Seems-like for the exotic price of those aftermarket-systems, they could include a workable key-switch to go-with, [instead of just a mere kill-switch] !)

****yeah right i totally agree! So what switch am i looking for? Im feeling dumber all of a sudden.... i thought your diagram showed the 4 terminal switch???

Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

The corrected diagram I've posted below, has that key-switch wiring-connection rather properly indicated !

[quote= flanker ...
" thx "

____ You need-not thank me for that extra-added info, cuz it was only included mainly for others who ought be made aware of that particular issue,, as you are-not going to be retaining the stock regulator/charging-system.



" So what switch am i looking for? "

____ Apparently you just happened to submit your post whilst I was coincidentally in the process of editing my previous-post with such related info !
So please reread my previous-post, and then-after ask any questions you may still have.
__ Also, to rather directly answer your question,, if indeed the Electrix-ign.system needs to be 'killed' in order to be turned-off, then your Duke-project could use the specific Ducati key-switch that's seen in the combo.picture posted in the thread-post found at this link ! ... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2022#p15154



____ I note that you've also 'Quoted' your-own entire post apparently for the purpose of including just one added question.
Please be advised that you could rather make-use of the 'EDIT' button (seen located near the upper-right of your post-page whenever logged-in), to retrieve another chance to conduct any changes you wish to make to your previously submitted post, (instead of submitting another (nearly identical) post with whatever change(s) you wish you had included within your first-try) !
__ Since you've submitted two nearly identical posts, I've edited your original post-copy so that it's now properly presented for others to see clearly distinguished (as the Quote-feature is rather-expected to be employed).
If you care to have your future posts also so properly presented, then you could look-over both your-own 'Quoted' version and your original-version (which I've now adjusted as the Quote-feature is actually meant to be used), and take-note of the exact placements of all the ' [ quote] & [/ quote] ' notation-indicators, (which can be revealed by clicking-on your 'EDIT' button), so as to learn how & where those notation-indicators do their intended-job.



" i thought your diagram showed the 4 terminal switch??? "

____ Indeed the last (Ducati-factory created) diagram I modified (seen on this page) also shows a 4-terminal -(actually two pairs) key-switch !
While one of it's std.switch-circuits connects (regulator monitored) battery-power to the main load-system,, it's other std.switch-circuit merely connects the battery-itself rather-directly to the regulator's charging-light circuit, (and that's all that switch-circuit does !).
__ So just what led you to ask that (seemingly confused) question ? _ Did you not recognize the indicated key-switch for what it actually is (since it's representing-symbol is obviously different from the ign.switch-symbol depicted in the D.Blackie-diagram) ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[flanker]

OK Bob, I think I may finally be getting it. If I may attempt to summarize..... In the latest modification of the diagram for electrex ignition.... We have the black/white wire commenting to the four prong DUAL ignition switch (not a twin switch (like I have)) so that the "kill" switch is not engaged and the battery is, when the ignition is in the on position. Is this correct?