175 electrical questions

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" its the amount of options "spoilt for choice" is what comes to mind "

____ But 'variety is the spice of life', don't-ya-know.

[bodge]

looking at the 175 schematic again there basicly appears to be 3 coils wrapped round two cores which is the same layout as my 160 bar the fact that the 175 has a wire connecting the two cores to each other and mine is earthed at both cores,could it be as simple as joining the two earths ive got together ?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" looking at the 175 schematic again there basicly appears to be 3 coils wrapped round two cores "

____ Where did you find a 175-schematic that shows the specific wiring-scheme of the stator-winding itself ?
Do you actually rather mean to say that the 175-stator has 3 windings wound around it's two coil-cores ?



" could it be as simple as joining the two earths ive got together ? "

____ Not really, cuz the two coil-windings are-not of the same wire-gauge & resistance-level, (which would thusly tend to impede one-another's current-flow [when so connected in series]).
As an exaggerated comparison with the ign.power-coil & lighting-coil (respectively),, it would be like connecting a 9-volt smoke-detector battery in series with a 6-volt motorcycle-battery and still expect them to work in harmony with each-others attribute-capabilities.
Such mismatching can possibly work to a limited extent but, not as properly expected.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[bodge]

i was refering to the one from the manual, theres a pic on page one, not specific maybe just gave me the impession it was the same winding just joined instead of grounded

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" i was refering to the one from the manual, theres a pic on page one, "

____ Don't think I've ever seen that particular pic/scheme _ Can you post it's likeness ?



" not specific maybe just gave me the impession it was the same winding just joined instead of grounded "

____ Possibly so,, I don't know for-sure, as I've never had a CEV-stator from a 175 to look-over. _ And in-fact, I'm pretty-much ignorant on exactly how the 175/CEV-stator's winding-scheme is particularly laid-out ! _ So I'm naturally quite curious as to exactly how it's specifically arranged.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[bodge]

this one i posted previously bob says its of the ducati version of the 40w for the 175 range

IMAG0069.jpg

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" this one i posted previously "

____ OH, right,, I now recall seeing that here-about before ! _ But I then couldn't see it too-well (on my PC.monitor) and briefly-thought perhaps it was meant for a Bronco or some 2-stroke Duke-model, and-so didn't remember to get-around to downloading it to see if I could lighten it up for better examination.
So I'll next post a cleaned-up version of it.



" says its of the ducati version of the 40w for the 175 range "

____ That would indeed be in good-order, as that stator-scheme is totally accordingly-compliant with the electrical-scheme shown for the 175.
I've colorized the 175-stator wire-leads to correctly match-up with the 175-type system-scheme.



____ After you gotten all caught-up with what I've covered (concerning schemes for load-systems which run entirely off-of the battery) on the previous-page, then let me know how your thoughts considering the '4 wire-lead' stator-mod.plan are coming-along (or-rather brewing).


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[bodge]

finding the cheaper lacey coil and you singing the praises of the 175 system is really pushing me back to where i started bob which is a std 175 setup but running 12 volt. im increasingly thinking ducati just swapped out the thinner wired ignition coil with the 175 item to create the 2 differant systems so im tempted to rewind that coil if i can find details of wire gauge/number of windings or maybe just match the wire gauge of the other coil ?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" you singing the praises of the 175 system is really pushing me "

____ The only standout aspect about the 175-type charging-system that's really praise-worthy, is that it logically only allows full alt.power-output when the headlight is switched-on, thus overting the need for a regulator. _ (And most-all from-scratch systems I recommend, include such circuit arrangements [even when a regulator-circuit is also included].)



" back to where i started
which is a std 175 setup but running 12 volt. "

____ The 175-type charging-system could no-doubt possibly charge a 12v.battery as-well but, it's no-load break-even point would be near-about 41% higher. _ So since the stock 175-6v.system is claimed to break-even at "900 R.P.M.", then a 12v.battery would-not charge until above 1273-RPM. _ And that 6v to 12v relative-relationship would tend to be fairly much reflected respectfully, during other load-conditions as well.
__ (The 160-type 28w.stator however, includes a certain advantage that's more-suited towards 12v.operation.)



" im increasingly thinking ducati just swapped out the thinner wired ignition coil with the 175 item to create the 2 differant systems "

____ It would be pretty-interesting to compare the tapped-pair of coil-windings of the 28w.lighting-coil with that of the upper power-coil of the 175-stator ! _ However I'm certainly inclined to believe that the two similarly arranged coil-windings would prove to not be exactly the same.



" so im tempted to rewind that coil if i can find details of wire gauge/number of windings or maybe just match the wire gauge of the other coil ? "

____ If you were going to keep your system as 6-volt, then indeed it would be best to re-wind the ign.power-coil with the same wire-gauge as your lighting-coil has, but the gauge-thickness of the ign.power-coil's wire-winding is actually the coil-winding that's more-so suited to a 12v.system, as both deal-with higher resistance-levels and it's best for efficient power-transfer (from stator-coils to load) when they are more closely 'matched' ! _ So if you prefer to go-with a 12v.system, then it's the lighting-coil which you ought rather consider rewinding instead.
(The lighting-coil should be near .6-ohm and the ign.power-coil should be about .9-ohm,, and while that may not seem much different, it's their respective 'impedance' levels that really count, and in that respect, the increased number of coil-loops around the ign.power-coil make that difference considerably greater !)
__ But before making stator-winding alterations,, the total resulted resistance-level of the entire-combined chosen load-system ought-to be worked-out first, so that you'd then have a better notion of whether your stator-winding impedance should be relatively raised or lowered to better 'match'.
So-then it could mater whether you connect the two power-coils in 'series' (as you've considered doing), or rather connected in 'parallel' (as I'd be more apt to suggest).
It's all really fairly-complex to exactly work-out balanced matching of the stator-coil impedance-level with the resistance-level of the load-system, and all the various involved factors can seemingly make match-figuring confoundingly disconcerting. _ But fortunately std.batteries tend to over-drown impedance-matching concerns.
__ So anyhow, if you really want to try-out your notion of simply series-connecting the two stock power-coils just as you've conceived, (providing that both coils are wound in the same orientation !),, it may possibly all work-out well-enough for you in the end,
(but I-myself have never tried that particular stator-modification and wouldn't recommend taking such a sketchy route !).
However if you really want to get full-power from your stator converted entirely to just DC.power, then you have-to consider adding at-least a 4th wire-lead.
So aren't you yet ready to discuss the related details of such a scheme ?


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[bodge]

think im going to have to mull over my options bob.
could do with knowing the original wire/winding of the 40 watt used in the 175 and the expected resistance of its coils for comparison.
i take it that if the 160 28 watt is the better option for 12 volt all battery conversion due to the smaller dia wire of its ignition coil it would be even better if the other dual winding on that stator were rewound to match ?