battery problems

[DewCatTea-Bob]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=749&start=60#p5366

[MotoMike]

Bob
not sure what you were going for, but that link takes me back to page 7 of this post

Mike

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" but that link takes me back to page 7 "

____ Not just page-7 (of this thread), but also the particular post which I had left unfinished and HAD mentioned that I was stalling on completing because I had yet to find a stock w-c regulator-box of my own...
I had since found a unit (to look-over it's SCRs), and so was then able to finish that post (the same day I finished my version of the reg.scheme you first posted), but it has since received no follow-up response from johnjupiter, so I simply placed my previous-latest post (with just the link) so as to bring this thread back to the top (of the list on the thread-topic page), with hopes of getting further action going on it.
__ Also hoping that johnjupiter will also update us on how his temporary rectifier-setup has been working-out for him, plus whether his blue-wire is still holding-up (with all the current-flow it's been having to pass).
__ Hoping everything is at least okay with jj !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[john jupiter]

hi guys, i just havent had the time or the weather to take it for a ride and monitor the battery and functions of the lights, horn etc with the rectifier set up. hope to do so and report back! i did however locate a low watt 6v 40/45w H4 tungsten headlight which may help with the new system unless i have REALLY have more "juice" than i can handle and the battery still heats up and fizzes...
that being said, mannn i wish i could get rid of the battery completely like the earlier models.. its already dripping acid (but not even warm) after a 10 minute ride.

Blue wire? the only blue i remember is in the origianl r/r set up.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" i did however locate a low watt 6v 40/45w H4 tungsten headlight "

____ That's good for two reasons (compared to your 75w.bulb), first, your stock-wiring can better handle the lower current-draw, (without NEED for any relay & extra-thick wiring),, and second, your system/battery will stay charged at a lower average-RPM.


" which may help with the new system unless i have REALLY have more "juice" than i can handle and the battery still heats up and fizzes... "

____ Keep in mind that there are TWO conditions: lights-ON & lights-Off...
With your lights turned-on, it's then unlikely your battery will suffer from any such overcharging symptoms (unless you run over a couple hours with an average-RPM over 6k-RPM),, however with the lights kept off (with your straight-rectification setup), continuous running over 4000-RPM will likely lead to such concerns becoming actual.
__ Running with your 45/40w.bulb, you'd have a fairly-well 'balanced' system (with no real NEED for a regulator).


" mannn i wish i could get rid of the battery completely like the earlier models.. "

____ Apparently you haven't ever had to try getting-by with such, or else you'd realize the needed use for a battery.
__ There are dirt-bike regulators and battery-eliminators that could allow you to run that way though, however.


" its already dripping acid (but not even warm) after a 10 minute ride. "

____ It would likely take over two hours of high-RPM running (with lights off), before your (fairly large) battery would show signs of notable exterior warmth (which would indicate overly warm internal plates).
__ Instead of using an old-style battery with the breather-caps which let-out the battery's solution (due to the strong vibration which 450s have), you ought to try a more modern battery-model which employs a breather-tube.
The 12v.battery that fits well, comes so equipped.


" Blue wire? the only blue i remember is in the origianl r/r set up. "

____ That's also true, the stock R/R.unit does employ a pair of short blue wires, inside.
However it seems you've forgotten of the blue-wire that provides system-power into the key-switch, which you had mentioned had gotten quite hot to the touch where they connect, (and with JUST the ignition turned-on, at that).
THAT blue-wire has to handle/carry ALL the current-juice which the entire load-system consumes ! _ It's a wonder that such a wire-size can hold-up with the ignition & lights running when the brake-light & horn also happen to be engaged !


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[john jupiter]

Ahhh that blue wire! That one seems to be fixed after putting a new connector on. But will check again tmrw just to be sure. Funny thing about that situation was it only got hot when the ignition was on and engine was off, points closed. If engine was running not a problem. Hopefully its been solved. Cant wait to go for a ride tmrw.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" Ahhh that blue wire! That one seems to be fixed after putting a new connector on. But will check again tmrw just to be sure. "

____ When you then do so, check it with BOTH the ign.points closed AND with the lights on ! _ It may get warm but, if it gets too hot to the touch, then that significant issue really ought to be solved !


" Funny thing about that situation was it only got hot when the ignition was on and engine was off, points closed. If engine was running not a problem. "

____ That's quite understandable because when the points are LEFT closed, the ign.coil is then allowed to CONSTANTLY draw it's rather high current, (thus getting time to heat-up any bottle-neck in the wiring-circuit),, however when the engine is running, the points then only get to shut & draw-current for about 40% of the time, (thus considerably less heating of the involved circuit).
__ I'm sure that if you had checked it before with your 75w.light also drawing it's (even larger !) share of current-juice, THEN you really would've gotten your finger burned (by that bad wire-connection you had) !


" Hopefully its been solved. "

____ You may have solved a bottle-neck wire-strand situation but, the stock-wire gauge-size is too thin to properly handle the current-demand of any SIX-volt light-bulb that's rated over 45-watts ! - (It's fairly common knowledge that twelve-volt light-bulbs which are rated over 60-watts, really ought to be connected with wiring that's heavier than just 16-gauge, and 6-volt versions draw TWICE the current !)


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[DanM]

I'm in the process of buying a 1965 Sebring that will need a battery. I searched the internet and found B38-6A as a replacement for the SAFA 3L3. But the B38-6A is a vented acid battery. I searched for an AGM replacement for the B38-6 and found the MK ES12-6 RND. The specifications and size are very close to the original SAFA 3L3.

I searched Motoscrubs and found in this thread there had been some problems with the ES12-6 RND. Reading through the 8 pages, I concluded that the problem may have been the charging system and not the battery. This is based on the bike needs the battery to furnish the current to start, but the charging system should furnish enough current to keep the bike running once started.

Is this a correct conclusion?

I called MK Battery today and they said there shoud be no problem using this battery in a motorcycle. When I asked about vibration effecting the battery, they said that being an AGM battery, it should withstand vibration better than a lead plate battery.

Is anyone using a ES12-6 Rnd without any problems?

Thanks,

Dan

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I concluded that the problem may have been the charging system and not the battery. This is based on the bike needs the battery to furnish the current to start, but the charging system should furnish enough current to keep the bike running once started.
Is this a correct conclusion? "

____ Yes, the stock charging-output will easily run the engine once above idle, (however some of the original electric-components will not tolerate running without a usable battery for long).
If the engine dies (while above idle) when the battery is disconnected,, then likely either a charging-system component has become faulted, or the alt.rotor has lost it's factory-set timing-position.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Octane]

Hi Jason,
That was EXACTLY what happened to me,one minute 6 volts next 0 volts so the engine just switched off.
Bob,
The battery is a yuasa B38-6A.The dimensions fit my rubber tray perfectly even though there isnt a specific listing for a Desmo.
I think it is the vibration that is killing these batteries.Mine was inside a plastic box normally fitted to a narrow case bike but still with the wide rubber strap.I wedged it with a small bit of wood to stop it moving around as its not a tight fit.but if you rev the bike while stationary the whole thing does jump about.
I will try it out over the weekend if the weathers good and report back

Same here.

I originally had a much smaller sealed 6V battery on my Mach 1, and that ran for the few hundred kms I did on it during daylight.
I then swapped to the Yuasa B38-6A as I believe this is the correct battery for the bike, and it also ran fine for the first couple of hundred kms during daylight hours.
But... It drained completely after 20minutes of riding with the headlamp on low beam.
I wasn't able to recharge it, so I bought another brand new one, put that on charge for 24hours, and installed that in the bike. Although showing 6V, the bike doesn't want to fire up.
The only way I've been able to get the bike to start is by hooking up the smaller sealed battery with jumper leads to the new Acid battery, and then kicking it over.
I still need to confirm if it's struggling to fire because of my throttle stop on the carb. I'll do that this weekend and see if I can get it to fire without jumping the new battery and report back.