diana blue

[bodge]

which part of the frame do you need to see to identify it for me bob? btw this is the frame that had the rear section bent up at an alarming angle so ive had to replace sections.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" im just going off one particular berliner ad/poster bob,may well be they never made/sold them like that "

____ Well of-course just cuz I've never seen one in person, doesn't necessarily mean such an example never existed.



" but ive seen a few "restored" ones with that colour scheme,may just be harking back to the earlier factory bikes "

____ I suppose it could be that there were 'Diana 250' frame-models factory-painted that color,, and due-to the inherent confusion between the two distinct 'Diana' model-versions, some could've chosen to repaint their Mark-III version the same (uncommon) frame-color.



" but i like the look "

____ And I sure don't disagree that it's indeed a preferable look !
__ Have you yet directly compared your frame's paint-color with the deep sky-blue color you sprayed over your tank ? _ And does the frame's paint have a 'metallic' appearance (like Eldert's tank), or rather a more pearlesque-like 'mica' looking finish ?
Which blue-color are you planning to permanently paint your tank ?



" somwone mentioned awhile ago it looked like an early monza or diana frame, "

____ It's quite disconcerting that people keep referring to the 'Diana 250' and the Mark-III version both as a mere "Diana", as those two Duke-models are actually very quite different !
__ While I've never owned a 'Diana 250', I believe it's frame is pretty-much identical to that of a '250 Monza' model's.



" what differentiates the two? "

____ The Mark-III frame is rather easily distinguishable (from the mere Diana-frame) due-to it's lack of the pair of support-brackets which the Monza/Diana-frames included (for mounting their regulator-units to) under the seat.



" it doesnt make any differance as im not trying to make a mk 111 replica just generally that look ill be going for "

____ That's been pretty-much understood/realized, (and a fine goal to desire achieving !).
However a notable visual-trait of the 'Mark-III', is that model's lack of a battery,, so if a std.battery is installed, it's obvious appearance then makes a Mark-III look more-so rather like a mere 'Diana' without side-covers.
__ (BTW, the correct Italian-designation for pre-65 Mark-three models, is-not Mark one-hundred,eleven -["111"],, but rather Mark (capital)-eye,eye,eye -[Roman-numeral three -(III)] !)



" which part of the frame do you need to see to identify it for me bob? "

____ I can already see it all well enough to determine that it's a Monza/Diana-type frame,, but I'm unsure as-to how to possibly distinguish a 'Diana 250' frame from a '250 Monza' version, (if indeed there's any noticeable difference at-all).


Enlightening-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[TrexDucatis]

The frame in my picture is indeed a scrambler..(a bitsa bobber I was building in lieu of missing parts)which has since found it's way to a restored 66 scrambler for my dad. Nearly identical to the bike he flat tracked in the late 60s.
I now have the correct monza frame, rear fender, tailight bracket and most of the correct pieces for my restoration. It's in a hundred pieces in boxes while I strip and paint the frame and rework the engine.
Every frame I have seen for any model is black, except the mach 1. I think the blue frame and matching tins will be quite striking when finished. Looking forward the finished Mark III pics.

[bodge]

the no regulator brkts makes sense,i wont be removing mine tho.

i think ide describe it as a fine mettalic,when its hardened off ill polish it and try and do a closup on an overcast day.

the intention is to paint the tank the same blue and run without battery,centrally mounted tach will be a speedo,top yoke will be the handlebar type tho ill probably run straights as opposed to the highway type original to these,i believe the drops were actually an option tho they appear on every mk iii now. headlight probably a bates and front mudgaurd will probably be generic fibreglass race type so no chance of fooling anyone its the genuine article.

heres the poster that inspired the build/colour scheme

Diana Mark 3 brochure.jpg

and heres a period ad for the earlier model which tho black and white tonaly appears to show a frame the same colour as the tank with a rear mudgaurd shorter than usually seen but similar to a chopped up one ill be using. note the misuse of mk 3 by berliner or the printer that i believe youve mentioned before,maybe this poster is/was partially responsible for the confusion.

d63ka04.jpg

the mess at the bottom is just where ive covered over the watermark placed after the event by some third party

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" the no regulator brkts makes sense,i wont be removing mine tho. "

____ That's quite sensible, cuz while n-c Scrambler & Mark-three frame-models don't include those bracket-mounts,, it would be silly to remove them, since they're located out of sight and can be handily used to mount various items !



" i think ide describe it as a fine mettalic, "

____Then that seems to be the right type of paint which you were interested in... neither a (std.particle-size)- metallic, nor a (creamy/powdery) pearlesque-type finish,, but rather more-so an extra-fine appearing metallic-looking mica-finish that appears to place somewhere in-between those two extremes, and not really outwardly look the very-same as regular/full-on 'metallic' when viewed from a couple-feet's distance (and not closely eyeballed).
__ However I'm really not sure that it's actually the particular 'Diana' blue-color which you were seeking, as it seems a bit too bright of a blue-shade (under your sun-lite pic.shot).



" and try and do a closup on an overcast day. "

____ That's certainly more preferable than in direct-sunlight,, but you need not wait for a day with a completely overcast-sky, as a sizable passing overhead cloud that blocks directly-beamed sunlight just during your pic.shot works well enough (to rather fairly display the paint-tint/shade, in a neutral-light) !
__ You didn't mention anything about how the two blue paints you got compare to each other (in person),, however since your pictures of those blue-paints were both taken in pretty-much the same kind of sunlight conditions, I've gone-ahead & created a combo-pic for direct comparison. ...

blue-comparison reflecting sunshine.jpg

" the intention is to paint the tank the same blue "

____ That would appear consistent with the Berliner-ad.
However if I-myself had two varied blue paints similar to what you've got,, I'd prefer having a solid-blue on the frame, and a mica/metallic-blue on the tank.



" and run without battery, "

____ Do you already have a system-scheme plan completed to set-up & employ, or do you have yet to work-out one ?
__ If you'd like to discus any number of possible battery-less power-systems, then please start a separate thread dedicated to the subject (and start-out with which alt/mag.model you have to work with).



" heres the poster that inspired the build/colour scheme "

____ While I've never personally seen a factory-original model with the frame painted that color, I'm pretty-sure I once seen one like that in the 'Report from Italy' section of an early-60s 'Cycle World' mag in which the picture of the 'Diana Mark-III' was taken at an Italian motorcycle-show displayed in Milan.



" heres a period ad for the earlier model which tho black and white tonaly appears to show a frame the same colour as the tank "

____ I agree that it's obvious that the frame is not black and likely matches the tank, (whatever the actual pictured color).



" with a rear mudgaurd shorter than usually seen "

____ The first/original Mark-III model was simply a Motocross-model, except rather with substituted: bare road-frame; lighter 18" wheels; GT-style tank, seat & chain-guard, with 10:1 piston and the special 'Mark-III'/(red)-camshaft.



" note the misuse of mk 3 by berliner or the printer "

____ That nick-name "Mk 3" designation first coined by Berliner, was just an unofficial abbreviation suitably chosen for the U.S.market (to represent the official Italian 'Mark-III' post-title), and-so in itself is-not really a "misuse" and-thus can get-away with being slang-used for referring to any of the Mark-III & Mark-3 models. _ (Just as 'Duke' has come to be slang-used for representing a Ducati/OHC.single, [although that slang-term was rather coined by the cycle-mags back-then].)



" that i believe youve mentioned before,maybe this poster is/was partially responsible for the confusion. "

____ Yes, this issue of confusion has been brought-up previously, (most memorably within a thread posted by a 'downunder' member who goes by the name 'hobby'). _ I think the related topic-mater is found in the following thread ... viewtopic.php?t=1691#p12313
__ At the time it was published, there then really wasn't any confusion it could cause, (back-then),, but may've back-then actually helped to reduce any otherwise likely confusion
between the new 'Diana Mark III' model and the (longer established) 'Diana 250' model.
And-so no confusion between the Mark-three models developed until after the very-distinctly different Mark-3 model came-out later for 1965 !
And-thus since then, the mere use of the indiscriminate 'Mk3' term has since come to allow for miscommunication concerning particular discernment of the various Mark-three models,, (just as the mere use of the name 'Diana' does as-well) !



" the mess at the bottom is just where ive covered over the watermark "

____ That apparently nervously hand-done cover-up could've been accomplished rather neatly by using the 'edit' feature on your PC.


Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[bodge]

in hindsight solid colour would have been easier to spray a frame with but its done now.
concentrating on bodywork and chassis atmo next will be assembling an engine from the collection of mismatched and mainly overpriced parts ive been collecting off ebay then the electrics which will be as std as possible but ill certainly need you help and advice with a few issues when the time comes.(btw i posted a pic of a cam in my identifying parts thread if you could cast your expert eye over it ide be most grateful)

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" in hindsight solid colour would have been easier to spray a frame with but its done now. "

____ And just as well anyhow, since your frame's rather-flashy blue-color seems more desirable (than that rather-plain solid-blue you've sprayed on your tank). _ And besides,, now that I've posted your two distinctly-varied blue-paints for direct comparison (as now seen in my recently edited post above), I've since come to suspect that those particular two blues appear as if they'd clash when seen matched next to one another. _ (However a lighter [solid-appearing] blue frame-color would rather look quite terrific matched-together with a medium-dark metallic-blue tank !)
While your tank's test-sample blue-color appears to be a regular medium/light-blue,, in direct-comparison, your frame's brighter blue-color obviously exhibits a tint-shift towards the neighboring green-range and thusly takes-on a tealish-tint appearance. _ And that seems to rather be a step in the opposite-direction instead of a step towards navy-blue (which is rather towards the neighboring indigo-range).
So perhaps you may yet choose to rather go-with a darker actual-metallic blue-paint (similar to that of Eldert's NOS.tank*), for your finally-chosen tank-color (for your Mark-III/Diana esque Duke-project).
It's hard to say for-sure whether Eldert's NOS.blue-tank would appear to be the same light-shade of blue (as your frame now currently exhibits), if also pictured under direct sunlight,, but the seemingly slightly-darker shade of blue which his tank seems to exhibit, appears to rather be a bluer-blue (without a hint of any greenish-tint).
As best I can tell (with Eldert's medium-low digital/pixel-resolution), his NOS.tank's dual-color paint-finish appears to be 'mica-silver' and a medium 'metallic-blue' -(that's not exactly like your frame's lighter-appearing 'mica-blue').
It could be a productive revelation if you'd mail to Eldert a sizable-section/sample-piece of your over-spray catch-paper which has caught a fairly thick accumulation of your (otherwise totally-wasted) blue-paint over-spray (which had missed becoming adhered to your frame). _ Then hopefully Eldert would personally directly-compare your chosen blue-paint with that of his NOS.tank, and perhaps then even provide a picture of his tank shown side-by-side with your sent overspray-sample, (thus-then fairly compared, since both blue-paints would then have been lit-up by the same source of lighting).
So if it's ever found that your frame's blue-color really-is indeed actually the very-same as that of Eldert's tank, after-all,, then perhaps you've applied a brighter undercoat/base-paint (than that which had been used for Eldert's NOS.tank). (?)
In any case however,, I really think a rather darker-blue tank would look much preferable matched with the lighter-blue frame, than having both frame and tank exhibit the very-same blue-color !

blue-Diana comparison.jpg

" next will be assembling an engine from the collection of mismatched
parts ive been collecting off ebay then the electrics which will be as std as possible "

____ You're certainly already aware of the possible troubles of mismatching alt/mag.stators and mag.rotors -(which may have unknown/incorrect timing-marks stamped in [questionable !]- place upon their front-faces), as has recently been touched-on in another current thread.
So if you've already got a complete alternator, then hopefully both parts came-stock together from the same motor.
__ Do you happen to already have the model-type you'll need for your preferred ignition-system, or are you unsure of which particular alternator-model your motor might have ?



" ill certainly need you help and advice with a few issues when the time comes. "

____ Hopefully that time will soon come, before mine does ! - (Getting fairly old, don't ya know !)



____ Besides having now edited this-post,, note that I've also added a link* to my previous-post above, (* which leads to a fairly-related thread of similar interest, [sample-pic below]).

Paul's early-MarkIII.jpg

Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ I had meant to get-around to doing this response-post back on July-6th, but the bodge-post of the 6th got posted next first,, and since that post seemed the most pertinent to be responded to, I rather replied to it next, instead.
Then-next when I intended to do this-post, my internet-connection was then off-line,, and later I forgot to get back to it (before a timely period elapsed), and afterwards had then lost interest in bothering to get-around to creating this once intended post.
However I've since become re-inspired to finally get-around to posting this previously intended post because of some related material which I've more recently happened to've chanced-upon. *

now that I've looked-over the fully brighten view of the ('customized' *) "Monza", it's frame appears to possibly rather be a Scrambler-frame.

[quote= TrexDucatis ...
" The frame in my picture is indeed a scrambler..
which has since found it's way to a restored 66 scrambler "

____ Ohh,, well if I had noted any readily apparent confirming-clue before that your pictured "Monza" was no-longer in existence, then I wouldn't have been so critical (as I've been) concerning your intention to repaint it's uniquely-beautiful blue pieces (with rather-ordinary "gloss black") !



" I now have the correct monza frame, rear fender, tailight bracket and most of the correct pieces for my restoration. "

____ So I now gather that your previous blue-painted customized-Monza is planned to be firmly committed to become totally converted into a full-fledged 'restoration' of a pre-1966 Monza-model,
is that correct ?



" It's in
boxes while I strip and paint the frame "

____ How close are you to getting-around to the painting-phase of those two steps ?
And what model-year of Monza do you intend for your very-next restoration-type paint-scheme to actually emulate ?



" Every frame I have seen for any model is black, except the
mach 1. "

____ I also haven't personally-seen any factory-stock frame-model that wasn't painted black, (although I've never seen [in-person] any Mach-I that still retained it's original factory-applied red-color frame-paintwork).



" I think the blue frame and matching tins will be quite striking when finished. "

____ * Now to get-to the related matter (which has re-inspired me to finally post this rather-late response-post). ...
__ Whilst recently looking for my 4-speed parts-book, (and also keeping-an-eye-open for a 'Diana 250'/'250 Monza' sales-brochure I recall once having),, I then first came-across a factory-authorized color-picture of a 4-speed Monza. _ Which reminded me that I had actually been aware that old Monza-models were (evidently) once produced with blue-colored frames !
Furthermore,, the color-picture shows it's Monza with copperish-colored -(possibly rather intended as gold-colored) headlamp & fenders plus same-color highlighted* on the air-filter side-cover (* along-with the frame & tank's blue-color as well).
While I've come-across at-least one old 4-speed Monza with fenders still brandishing such gold/copper-colored paint-finish,, the frame-color still wasn't blue though, (although could've-been the factory-blue, but possibly got repainted black sometime later before becoming encountered in the early '70s) !
While it's difficult to tell for-sure, the blue-color presented by the Monza (in the found picture), appears to be the same blue-color as that seen test-sprayed on the bodge fuel-tank.

quick pick of frame in duc a22

Think you are right on for the Diana color. Mine is definitely a much darker shade like the 66 scrambler blue... I think.

____ You may indeed be right about that, but it's certainly not easy to be real-sure when the pictured paint-colors are compared after having been separately lighted by considerably different light-spectrum sources with varied light-intensities !
Also,, by "Diana", I'm left to figure that you must mean 'Diana Mark III' rather than 'Diana 250',
as I still think that the Diana-250 blue-paint color-shade was pretty-much a darker-blue than that shown recently applied onto the bodge frame.


Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[thebossdj]

Here is a picture showing the paint code made up for the Diana Blue. This is from a gentleman that has done many perfect restorations. I will be using this on my own Daytona.

[Rick]

Thanks for sharing the formula.
Rick