Ducati 450R/T or is it a T/S

[Santiago]

I've managed to purchase another 450 Desmo in New Zealand, it's obviously not the original colour, it was advertised as a 450 R/T, however looking at the pictures of the frame (I've not received the bike yet), it looks like it's got the welded on lugs for the pillion pegs, gauges, am told it had the low pipe and silencer which is coming with the bike. Not sure the rear light bracket is correct. Does anyone out there in Motoscrubs land have any information on the T/S, not much is available on the web. Numbers are Eng. No. DM 450 459201, Chassis 450S 466284.

[Santiago]

Another couple of photos and a picture found on the web.

[IanHood]

The engine and frame numbers are close to an R/T listed here (https://www.bevelheaven.com/data-single.htm):
450 R/T Desmo 1971/72 459159 450S 466243

Unfortunately that doesn't mean too much since the numbers often bounced around quite a bit. I don't believe the TS came with brackets for pillion pegs either did it. Do the welds on those brackets match the welds on the rest of the bike? It's possible they were added later. Of course, R/Ts were never originally road registerable but many have had lights etc. added.

Ian

[IanHood]

I stand corrected, apparently there was a kit available with the lights etc. so R/Ts could be road registered.

[themoudie]

Aye Santiago,

Mick Walker's book Ducati Singles Restoration, 1991, Osprey Publications, has some specifications, but no mention of engine/frame numbers.

However, your frame appears correct from the image that is in this above book, with no pillion footpegs, they are a previous owners "add on".

I quote from the above, p224:

"1971....... Fork legs and yoke polished alloy finish 450R/t and T/S models introduced. Both hadin common brand new heavy-duty, braced swinging arms, plastic tanks, side panels and mudguards. R/T was an off road scrambler, T/S enduro six days bike, with lights and silencer, initially high level, later fitted with low level MKIII system."
"1972 ..... R/T and 125 scramblker discontinued."
"1973 ...... At the end of the year the touring 450's and the T/S were discontinued."

And from pages 219 - 221. Both the R/T and the T/S have the same desmo cam as the 1969-71 450 MK3D and 1971-74 450 Desmo, front drum brake 158 mm dia. and rear drum brake 160 mm dia. in 3.00 x 21" and 4.00 x 18" rims respectively. Both models were also fitted with a flywheel magneto, 6v/40W.

Ian Fallon maybe the person to speak to, or to read his publications when it comes to specific frame/engine numbers in the 2 models production runs.

I hope this gives you some pointers, if not the answers you were specifically looking for.

Good health, Bill

[Jon Pegler]

Looks like an RT with the offside bracket for the low level exhaust.
Ian Falloon's book on the Ducati singles has a chapter on the RT, but it must be taken with a pinch of salt, as that chapter is riddled with mistakes.

Jon

[Santiago]

Thanks for the replies, I think the brackets for the pillion pegs are factory, I've since found these pics, I'm thinking the TS had a black frame, pillion pegs, low pipe and slash cut Silentium muffler. It's going to get a resto I think, back to yellow. This is joining an RT (with no pillion pegs) for VMX which has an XL350 front end installed (it was rescued from being a cafe racer which had Ceriani road race forks), and a 450 RT engine in a 450 Scrambler frame which has been turned into a road racer - stroked the crank by 3mm, 86mm bore, 38mm carb, Veetwo Desmo cam, Ceriani 'Yellow Desmo" 450 forks and disc front brake. I'm looking forward to taking this one around the hills and maybe up a few fire roads.

[Eldert]

Hi Mark

i think the TS had the air cleaner turned 90 degrees to make room for the battery

nothing wrong with non original colors . i always liked the early 750 GT metalflake bikes

but i dont think i could buy one for a nice price so i made my RT to kinda look look that

europlastsucci in Italy made the blue metalflake fenders for me

engine is 78 mm stroke and 90 mm bore . its a valve springer with reangled valves

frame has a lot of modifications to

Eldert

RT 2.JPG

[Santiago]

Hi Mark

i think the TS had the air cleaner turned 90 degrees to make room for the battery

nothing wrong with non original colors . i always liked the early 750 GT metalflake bikes

but i dont think i could buy one for a nice price so i made my RT to kinda look look that

europlastsucci in Italy made the blue metalflake fenders for me

engine is 78 mm stroke and 90 mm bore . its a valve springer with reangled valves

frame has a lot of modifications to

Eldert

RT 2.JPG

Hi Eldert, I've not seen the bike yet, it will be delivered next week or the week after from the North Island, I'll see if the filter is installed. It definitely has a battery tray. I read the posts about your bike, you should write a book on modifiactions to Ducati singles, many of us would buy it. Rademaker a famous name in Ducati singles world, I bought many Classic Racer magazines in mid 2000's for the IHRO classics series articles to get pictures of the green and silver bike you ran.

[Eldert]

Hi Mark

i never would have thought that people on the other side of the world would know who my brothers and me are . amazing .

anyway the 450 RT's that where sold in about 1971 had engine numbers in the 454xxx and 455xxx range

your engine is a later one . 73 / 74 maybe . it should have the lager M30 alternator outlet ( early is M22 )

i think they went to the larger outlet with the introduction of electronic ignition . 2 wires out of the case .


Ducati made another batch of RT's in 73 for the Australian marked supposely . so your bike could be from that batch

i had a closer look at the pictures and it has the M30 outlet . the clutch inspection cover looks like a Mototrans item .
did not see the made in Italy under the Ducati lettering

Regards Eldert