Ducati 450R/T or is it a T/S

[themoudie]

Aye Mark, in the 2nd image you posted 14th, May, you can see what the problem is with using the slash cut, under slung silencer. The internal baffling is choking the gas flow sufficiently to cause the blueing of the silencer and that will cause all sorts of grief when trying to get the engine to carburate properly. I realise that your machine has had the underslung exhaust system removed at present.

I fitted a pattern Gold Star silencer to my 450MKIII and couldn't persuade it to rev out, there was also blueing where the baffle was welded to the inside of the silencer. Even after enlarging the hole in the baffle, using a 1.5" crowbar, it still choked the engine from reving out.

Eldert makes good observations and as appears to be common with the later end of production runs, Ducati/Mototrans were building "Bitsas" using frames and cycle parts from Italy, whilst the engines were being assembled by Mototrans with a combination of parts from Ducati and Mototrans manufacture. Check the timing idler gear, in case it's a plastic one, as they become brittle and break up. You may also find either a Ducati Electronnica, or Motoplat alternator, rather than the magneto that I earlier suggested in my transcription from Mick Walker's book.

My experience with the Motoplat alternator in a late 350 MKIII engine was that all the insulation on the cables coming from the stator was rotten, the copper core was blackened and corroded and the resin encapsulating the stator coils was cracked. I threw my whole Motoplat system into the scrap yard and replaced it with an Electrex set up. However, if you wish to retain the Motoplat set up, UK-Motoplat are the people to speak to, as they are able to completely refurbish these units. I have posted the link below:

UK-Motoplat

I hope that you are able to enjoy the beastie once you have received it.

Good health, Bill

[Santiago]

Hi Mark

i never would have thought that people on the other side of the world would know who my brothers and me are . amazing .

anyway the 450 RT's that where sold in about 1971 had engine numbers in the 454xxx and 455xxx range

your engine is a later one . 73 / 74 maybe . it should have the lager M30 alternator outlet ( early is M22 )

i think they went to the larger outlet with the introduction of electronic ignition . 2 wires out of the case .


Ducati made another batch of RT's in 73 for the Australian marked supposely . so your bike could be from that batch

i had a closer look at the pictures and it has the M30 outlet . the clutch inspection cover looks like a Mototrans item .
did not see the made in Italy under the Ducati lettering

Regards Eldert

Hi Eldert, thanks for the information, the photos are not very high resolution, I'll have a closer look once the bike gets delivered. There is an ad on Kleinanzeigen at the moment for a '450RT' frame, however it too has the welded on pillion peg / low exhaust lug like my frame and I notice the rear loop has a boss in the centre that is threaded and appears to be where the metal tail light and number plate bracket attaches, mine has that boss as well (as opposed to my RT frame that does not have it on the rear loop, and from all the pictures I have seen use the rubber wrap around flap). I'll have to try to find the metal light bracket from the parts list, or try and adapt a light bracket from a Monza perhaps. The one it currently has looks to be from a Scrambler and does not look right. The late Phil Aynsley's website has a couple of pics and he says he owned the bike from new - I'm fairly sure I have one like his, the later (so 73-74) version, and will attempt to restore it back to this condition.

[Santiago]

Aye Mark, in the 2nd image you posted 14th, May, you can see what the problem is with using the slash cut, under slung silencer. The internal baffling is choking the gas flow sufficiently to cause the blueing of the silencer and that will cause all sorts of grief when trying to get the engine to carburate properly. I realise that your machine has had the underslung exhaust system removed at present.

I fitted a pattern Gold Star silencer to my 450MKIII and couldn't persuade it to rev out, there was also blueing where the baffle was welded to the inside of the silencer. Even after enlarging the hole in the baffle, using a 1.5" crowbar, it still choked the engine from reving out.

Eldert makes good observations and as appears to be common with the later end of production runs, Ducati/Mototrans were building "Bitsas" using frames and cycle parts from Italy, whilst the engines were being assembled by Mototrans with a combination of parts from Ducati and Mototrans manufacture. Check the timing idler gear, in case it's a plastic one, as they become brittle and break up. You may also find either a Ducati Electronnica, or Motoplat alternator, rather than the magneto that I earlier suggested in my transcription from Mick Walker's book.

My experience with the Motoplat alternator in a late 350 MKIII engine was that all the insulation on the cables coming from the stator was rotten, the copper core was blackened and corroded and the resin encapsulating the stator coils was cracked. I threw my whole Motoplat system into the scrap yard and replaced it with an Electrex set up. However, if you wish to retain the Motoplat set up, UK-Motoplat are the people to speak to, as they are able to completely refurbish these units. I have posted the link below:

UK-Motoplat

I hope that you are able to enjoy the beastie once you have received it.

Good health, Bill

Hi Bill, I've read the posts on Motoscrubs of the trials you went through with your beastie in Scotland, hopefully I can avoid repeating the same things here. Since it will only be used on the hills close to home (Christchurch) I'll probably run it on my unused race gas (100LL avgas basically) so shouldn't suffer from high levels of toluene in the crappy fuel we now have in NZ, since they shut down our only oil refinery and all the fuel is imported (don't get me started on that subject). Anyway, fortunately the previous owner installed a complete system from Electrex world, so any ignition troubles should be able to be dialled out fairly easily. The original system comes with the bike I believe, it can go on the shelf for posterity. I will check for the idler gear as suggested.

[graeme]

I didn’t think any 450 was built by Mototrans.
I was under the assumption all 450’s were Italian.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Regards
Graeme

[themoudie]

Aye Graeme,

I too stand to be corrected, as I posted the "worm"! My apologies.

Good health, Bill

[Santiago]

I didn’t think any 450 was built by Mototrans.
I was under the assumption all 450’s were Italian.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Regards
Graeme

Hi Graeme, I might need another set of springs One set is in my race bike, the other is earmarked to go in the 450RT VMX. Funny how you can start with 1 450 and end up with a fleet of them